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--- faq [2024/04/16 15:09] – [Is the VIP subscription pay to win? (P2W)] unhandled
+++ faq [2025/06/26 00:37] (current) – [Why isn't Armor-Patching working?] unhandled
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 Don't let the lack of weapons you find discourage you too much, though, armor is generally more important, and inventory space in the early game is even more important. Your main problem early game isn't going to be killing things quickly but rather surviving multiple mobs and having space to store the items you loot.
-If you have a guild, you can ask your guildmates if they can craft a better weapon for you or not. Clubs are in the game as well as Staves. If you go Bard someone can probably make you a Horn Off-Hand as well. That's about it for now, though. It's believed that the Statehelm or another major update will add in Weapon Making skills for many of the classes. This could be a year or more away, though.
+If you have a guild, you can ask your guildmates if they can craft a better weapon for you or not. Clubs are in the game as well as Staves. If you go Bard someone can probably make you a Horn Off-Hand as well. That's about it for now, though. It's believed that the Statehelm or another major update will add the rest of the Weapon Making skills for many of the classes. (Blademaking was added in 2024, I think so we already do have that)
 ==== Favor is a grind and items and Favor will be wiped on release. Shouldn't I just wait for release to play the game? ====
 NOTE: //There isn't plans to wipe items anymore as far as I know. There might still be a favor wipe at some point down the line, but I kind of doubt it will happen as the devs have stated they need "end-game" players to see how balanced out the end game will end up being, so if there are favor wipes, they might just be targeted on certain NPCs and probably for specific reasons. They might also decide to do a favor wipe but give players who had already done the favor grind some sort of advancement in rank. There's a lot of ways this could go down, but there will not be an item wipe anymore, so don't use that as an excuse to not play. Below is what I wrote back when there was going to be an item wipe, just for posterity's sake//
-The short answer to this question: "Perhaps".
-One thing to consider is that the game was going to be released in "a few years" even back in 2013, 2015, 2017, 2020, etc. I don't think it will be completely finished for a while at this point, even if the target right now is "soon". Even with what seems like an increased pace of updates -- and sometimes major ones at that! -- I don't feel like rushing by any particular deadline is going to happen because the devs have a lot of skills to consider for every new update and the complexity of the game has expanded well past the original game, I'm sure.
-[[https://forum.projectgorgon.com/showthread.php?2023-Any-estimate-or-information-on-full-release-date&p=14727&viewfull=1#post14727|Citan has stated that mounts and all playable races are needed]] before the game could be considered finished and while we do have mounts we don't have all of the races yet (Orc and Dwarf are being worked on). I don't see all the races being done in less than a year, though it's possible many may be available "soon".
-The reason I say "Perhaps" above, though, has more to do with how you approach gaming. Some people need to have a finished product before they feel comfortable playing the game.
-That said, I don't understand the point of waiting if you aren't a stickler for playing only finished games. It's been said now that there isn't going to be an item wipe, so I don't know if the Favor wipe is still in or not, my guess might be that it isn't, but if there isn't going to be an item wipe, then the Favor wipe would be a minor inconvenience at best for most regular players.
-Skills are used to get the items that you are going to need for Favor, too. Skills are NOT going to be wiped, meaning that if you do need to grind out Rat Tails or Shoddy Skins for Favor, you're going to be at a huge advantage as a max level Fire Magic/Battle Chemist with no gear than a level 1-10 with Unarmed/Sword. Any two-skill combo at mid-to-high range in skills is going to beat being a low level player on release.
-The only justification I can think of as to why not to buy and play now or when the game is on sale is if you are the type of person that simply MUST have a finished product before you feel comfortable playing a game. But that is just my two cents on this.
-Now, the flipside of this might be that we are ultimately playing a game that is primarily from the imagination of two main developers (there are now more developers, but the original idea was from two former Asheron's Call devs). When this game does eventually go into release, it'll be a unique one that was primarily made by only two people who had an idea and saw that idea to fruition. If you feel like you won't be able to enjoy experiencing such a game until it is completely finished, then please wait, I think you'll be pleased with the final result.
 ==== This game is too grindy if I want to do everything that it offers and it offers too much. Why is it so grindy? ====
 One of the big draws to MMOs in the late 90s and early 00s was that they were like the MUDs several of us at the time were already playing, only they were much much bigger. Or at least it seemed that way. They were 3d. They had more skills. They had complexity between the skills. They had more players. They had seemingly endless content.
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 The beauty of PG is that after you get to combat level 90 or higher in skills you can determine if you really want to stick around to get your crafting skills to 90+ as well. You certainly don't have to. In fact, a lot of players essentially do a "reset" once they hit level 90+ in their first two skills and many choose to play as an animal so its an entirely new experience for them!
+I just wanted to end referencing the bit of history I gave you above. In the end, I'm not particularly happy that people see a grind as a bad thing. I think it's a good thing. I think some time-gated content is okay, but what WoW did to the genre was a step backwards, IMHO, and removes any sense of real progression and reward for hard work. Work SHOULD be hard for it to be rewarding. Believe me, if you ever max the crafting skill Saddlery in this game, you have my utmost respect both for the in game money you spent and the sheer amount of work you probably did trying to get every crafting buff possible before the grind. That's the reason people do it, though, not because it is easy, but because it's hard!
 ==== This game isn't popular. Why should I play it? ====
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 If you measure a game's value to you by how many Youtube or Twitch viewers watch it, you're never going to be happy with a game like Project Gorgon, but you're also going to miss out on plenty of other games you might find very fulfilling, too.
-Some of the most popular games in the world right now are pay-to-win mobile games, but I am guessing *you* (or the type of person reading this right now) find mobile games not fun, right? Why do you find them not fun if they are so popular? Think about that. One reason might be that the mobile games at the top today will be old news within a year. After all, does anyone remember Facebook games like Farmville? How about Words With Friends?
+Some of the most popular games in the world right now are pay-to-win mobile games, but I am guessing *you* (or the type of person reading this right now) find mobile games not fun, right? Why do you find them not fun if they are so popular? Think about that. One reason might be that the mobile games at the top today will be old news within a year. After all, does anyone remember Facebook games like Farmville? How about Words With Friends? Another reason is that mobile games go after people just looking for "cheap thrills" that aren't actually a rewarding use of their time.
 So now apply that to your own gaming habits and the argument that a game isn't popular right now.
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 Right now (September 2020) on Twitch.tv the most popular game listed is Among Us. If you don't believe me that games fall off in popularity, bookmark this and put in a reminder to come back in September 2021, Project Gorgon will still be here, this wiki will still be here, and many of the same community members playing Gorgon will still be here, but Among Us won't still be at ~200k viewers or even anywhere close to half of that. (Update March 2021, it's averaging 20k viewers now and everyone is playing Valheim instead) (Update July 2021, 4.3k viewers)
-Now that it's been one full year, I can confirm that in October 2021, Among Us has 3.3k live viewers on Twitch, proving my point. (Update December 2022, only 2.2k viewers. March 2023, only 1.6k viewers.)
+Now that it's been one full year, I can confirm that in October 2021, Among Us has 3.3k live viewers on Twitch, proving my point. (Update December 2022, only 2.2k viewers. March 2023, only 1.6k viewers. June 2025, only 628 viewers.)
 At some point you are going to find that you play games that you want to play for yourself and not just for everyone else you know or that follows a certain streamer or even shares the same guild that usually jumps from MMO to MMO. And that's okay. Sometimes you might play a popular or flavor-of-the-month game because your friends are, and that's okay, too.
-Don't let the lack of popularity of old school MMOs like Project Gorgon fool you, it's a deep game with a lot of skills to work on. The carrot-on-a-stick appeal of retro MMOs is still a very satisfying dopamine factory for your brain, just enjoy it. :D
+Don't let the lack of popularity of old school MMOs like Project Gorgon fool you, it's a deep game with a lot of content. The carrot-on-a-stick appeal of retro MMOs is still a very satisfying dopamine factory for your brain, just enjoy it. :D
-Plenty of people are online right now playing and you'll run into them at any time of day. Overnight, only the players from the Pacific and Asian regions get on and it will drop under 100 concurrent players, but it seems like it is always easy to find a group since there is really only one server and there's always someone on during prime time. I'd recommend joining with a friend or two though, as this is a much more enjoyable game to play with friends.
+Plenty of people are online right now playing and you'll run into them at any time of day. Overnight, only the players from the Pacific and Asian regions get on and it will drop under 100 concurrent players, but it seems like it is always easy to find a group since there is really only one server and there's always someone on during prime time. I'd recommend joining with a friend or two though, as this is a considerably enjoyable game to play with friends.
-Lastly, if you are an engineer, systems analyst, or someone that likes to tinker with systems regardless of how used they are, you can definitely play this game solo and appreciate it for what it is and the unique interactions of skills. Brewing, for example, has an "explore your options" system that is unique to every character and not found in any other MMO. It's very similar to how the original spellcasting in Asheron's Call felt before people provided guides to every spell in the game.
-Plus, with 100+ skills in the game and many of them having synergy levels, it's fun to level certain skills and watch how they all affect each other.
 ==== No, you don't understand, MMOs must be popular, it's the whole point of "Massively" in the term MMO. Why don't you get that? ====
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 Another thing to consider is that if you put the game on your Steam wishlist, you will get notified when it goes on sale. Definitely buy it on sale if it ever goes to $20 or lower again, but honestly it's still a great deal even at $30 or $35.
-==== Is the VIP subscription pay to win? (P2W) ====
+I believe there's a $20 option for the game now as well, hopefully that made it a bit more accessible for people.
-So, the short answer to this is "No", of course. You can't pay for levels, you can't pay for experience, you can't pay to get an increase in the rate of XP, etc.
-The longer answer involves going into what you get with a paid VIP subscription, however, and this is where if you are certain type of person that hates people that spend money on games, you might think the game is P2W.
+==== Is the VIP subscription pay to win? (P2W) ====
+So, the short answer to this is "No", of course. You can't pay for levels, you can't pay for better gear, you can't pay for experience, you can't pay to get an increase in the rate of XP, etc.
-When you pay for VIP, you should approach it as if you are donating money to help develop the game faster. It's not like this game has hundreds of thousands of VIP players, after all. It's also not like the developer is just going to walk away with it unfinished when there's still a small but dedicated community. It's a labor of love for a game both developers always wanted to make and many of us really enjoy playing.
+The longer answer involves going into what you get with a paid VIP subscription, however, and this is where if you are certain type of person that absolutely hates that people spend money on games, you might still think the game is P2W.
-Rather than redoing some Kickstarter or Indie funding option, which they used to offer, the devs decided to allow people to purchase "VIP" to do ongoing donations to the dev team to keep the game updated. It has paid for a UI (user interface) programmer who has been doing some great work with making crafting and other UI stuff work very well.
+Rather than redoing some Kickstarter or Indie funding option, which they used to offer, the devs decided to allow people to purchase "VIP" monthly to do ongoing donations to the dev team to keep the game updated. For a while, VIP paid for a UI (user interface) programmer who has been doing some great work with making crafting and other UI stuff work very well.
-What you get for VIP is +15 inventory slots (including in transfer chests) and the ability to learn skills very very slowly from other players while offline. If you paid for a backer package version or prepay, you get a free horse and a free house. This brings the VIP package in line with the old Kickstarter offer that was proposed a long time ago and was available to earlier players.
+What you actually get for VIP is +15 inventory slots (including in transfer chests for transferring items between characters) and the ability to learn specific skills very slowly from your friends while offline. If you paid for a specific backer package version you get a free horse and a free house, both of which will be available in game for a small cost plus a very easy quest. This brings the VIP package in line with the old Kickstarter offer that was proposed a long time ago and was available to earlier players.
 As someone who has gotten the horse lord package and prepaid for $500 worth of VIP, I can tell you the single best thing for VIP by far has been the +15 inventory slots. That said, if I didn't have that, I'd survive now that we have other storage options like the small box of space and the saddle, so inventory space is mattering less and less at the higher levels, at least, it's still a grind to get there, but that's the fun of these types of old school games.
-In my honest opinion as of 2023, None of the VIP "perks" make it P2W. They provide very minuscule benefits.
+In my honest opinion as of 2024, None of the VIP "perks" make it anywhere even close to P2W. They provide very minuscule benefits.
 So I guess it comes down to how much you think a non-competitive game like Project Gorgon can be "P2W".
-I personally don't think a game where there isn't some form of PvP can be considered P2W, but I understand that some people like to compete on how well they perform in PvE, and to them, the advantages that a VIP get could be easily seen as "Winning". I don't think the grind in this game is ridiculous, though, and most MMOs with what I would call P2W elements, nerf the XP gain so that you have to buy packages in order to get XP at a reasonable pace. That's definitely not what is happening here.
+I personally don't think a game where there isn't some form of PvP can be considered P2W, but I understand that some people like to compete on how well they perform in PvE, and to them, the advantages that a VIP get could be easily seen as "Winning". I also don't think the grind in this game is ridiculous, though, and most MMOs with what I would call P2W elements, nerf the XP gain so that you have to buy packages in order to get XP at a reasonable pace. That's definitely not what is happening here.
-So yeah the short of it is: IMHO, it's not P2W and it can't be considered P2W because this isn't a competitive game. Even if you did ignore that it wasn't a competitive game, the advantages are very minor, especially at end game.
+So yeah the short of it is: IMHO, it's not P2W and it can't be considered P2W because this isn't a competitive game. Even if you did ignore that it wasn't a competitive game, the advantages are very minor, especially at end game and none of the benefits directly give the players levels or XP.
 ==== My screen stutters when I play and I have tried everything, what can I do to fix it? ====
 An animation update fixed most of the other graphics issues many players had with animations, but specific driver and OS combos can sometimes still be problematic. I would recommend getting driver updates and/or contacting a guide in the game or using the Help channel if you have specific questions. Also, if you did update your drivers, please do a restart before contacting a guide, just to make sure those new drivers are actually loaded and your client (and Steam) is updated correctly.
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 ==== Why only the tutorial island and two zones for Demo players? ====
-While it may seem like two zones is small, these are actually pretty big zones and they include enough mobs and monsters that you could easily hit level 15 in many skills without entering a single Dungeon. That said, you can enter any of the dungeons in Serbule and Serbule Hills as far as I know.
+While it may seem like two zones (3 with Anagoge) is small, these are actually pretty big zones and they include enough mobs and monsters that you could easily hit level 15 in many skills without entering a single Dungeon. That said, you can enter any of the dungeons in Serbule and Serbule Hills as far as I know.
 There are at least two, possibly three dungeons in Serbule alone that you can't even properly do at level 15 in combat skills without group help. Serbule is definitely one of the bigger and more fleshed-out zones. Serbule Hills is similarly large and has a lot of quests and named mobs usually having to deal with those quests. You're getting basically two of the biggest zones in the game and the whole starter island for free, basically.
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 I had the unfortunate experience of watching someone who was banned for verbal abuse spin up demo account after demo account complaining about the community in Demo chat one night when the game was attracting a lot of new players. In one event, someone even paid for another account just to be able to complain in Global about it.
-In other instances, they will post to Reddit complaining about a mundane feature not being available for VIP. Then, if you question them about why they really even need that, they complain about how the community is so horrible. In other words, most of the reasons why you sometimes see insults to the community is because the clever trolls know it gets under the playerbase's skin.
+In other instances, they will post to Reddit complaining about a mundane feature not being available for VIP or complaining that VIP gives X or something. Then, if you question them about why they really even need that, they complain about how the community is so horrible. In other words, most of the reasons why you sometimes see insults to the community is because the clever trolls know it gets under the playerbase's skin.
-That's why I don't really brag about the community, even if it is the best among the other MMOs out there.
+That's why I don't really brag about the community in my Steam review or online anywhere, even if I do think it is the best among the other MMOs out there. (Eh, OK I did brag here, but this is the only place I will do that)
 In reality, the veterans playing the game are great and enjoy the game and will help you in various ways if you ask for it. But I do kind of wish that when people reviewed the game they didn't overhype the community. We're normal humans after all with our own needs and wants, not superheroes that are going to make your every waking moment on Project Gorgon the best social experience you've ever had.
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 ==== Why isn't Armor-Patching working? ====
-See above, it's possible you are trying to link directly to the item instead of the skill.
+See above, it's possible you are trying to link directly to the item on your hotbar instead of the skill.
 ==== I'm done with questions where is the guide? ====
 [[beginning|The Beginning]] is the start of the game and custom creation if you are ready to proceed and have no further questions about [[graphicsbugs|graphics settings]], otherwise if you still have questions you can [[contactauthor|contact me]]. Otherwise if you are already in game you can proceed to [[anagogeisland|Anagoge Island]] or [[serbule|Serbule]].