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--- mmos_dead [2025/08/11 21:32] – unhandled
+++ mmos_dead [2025/08/15 17:23] (current) – [Are MMORPGs Dead? Creating the perfect MMO] unhandled
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 I think the one thing no MMO has ever tried that should be done is a way to intermix all the core elements of an MMO into one large, complex but unique, system.
+=== Progression matters ===
+Everything in an MMO needs to be progression towards some end goal. Even if it is grindy. Even if it leads into something you don't necessarily care about progressing in, if it eventually leads to something that you DO care about progressing in, then it's a worthwhile endeavor and players will participate in it.
 === What are all the core elements of an MMO? ===
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   - Small group PvP
   - Group PvP
+  - End-game crafting or imbuing
 Almost every MMO has most, if not all of these core elements. Very few games focus on all of these elements and instead have strengths in certain ones, while neglecting the others. Many of them have currencies for participating in specific elements, and then provide gear or items for progression down that same path. I think this is where current MMOs go "wrong", however.
+I do think that crafting can be interspersed into each of these aspects as well, for example. Perhaps crafted items in game can require one thing obtained from Gathering, one thing obtained from PvE, and one thing obtained from PvP. But there should probably be more to it than just that as well.
 === How to fix the core MMO content ===
@@ Line 44: / Line 50: @@
   - Group PvE or raiding which helps get shards/trinkets needed for...
   - PvP which leads to PvP experience levels needed for...
-  - Group PvP which leads to a new zone for...
+  - Small group PvP which leads to a new zone for...
+  - Large group PvP which opens up access to a new zone for...
   - Gathering the best materials in the game for...
-  - Crafting the best gear in the game.
+  - Imbuing the best gear in the game.
 The best MMO would require a robust auction system for trading the "currency" or shards/trinkets or materials from the very start. Nothing should be absent from the auctionhouse and anyone should be able to trade for any other items in the game, meaning crafters can focus on crafting, gatherers can focus on gathering, and if someone likes the PvE or PvP, they can focus on that as well if they are good enough at it.
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 I know some systems like Albion Online have ways to balance this as well by integrating a form of RMT into the base game itself, easing pressures on outside and often illegal abuse (ie, moneylaundering).
+=== Contradictions on MMO and MUD ===
+Let's note some contradictions among MMO players and commentators on why MMOs are dying. For example, we have social media for interactions between people. We can fight about politics online on Reddit or online forums, we can share pictures of our dogs or cats on Facebook, we can talk about the latest news on Twitter or X. When people get online, they can choose to go to the realm of play that they want, and sometimes their version of "play" is going to be finding romance, or chat rooms, or political discussion. Sometimes their version of "play" is going to be playing video games. But these people don't want to talk religion or politics, so almost every MMO bans discussions along these lines, right?
+Well, they didn't used to. Hell, there are still MUDs out there where pretty much anything goes. So what changed?
+We changed. What we expected changed. We realized that some formats just aren't great or ideal for certain types of discussions or that some conversations ruin experiences for people. My argument is that we should keep evolving along these lines. Global chat should really only be used for help or for players that need some sort of assistance finding what to do in game. Nearby chat should be used in almost every other case. A significant portion of people abuse global chats in video games simply because it is a massive way to intervene in someone else's life. If you've ever run an MMO or multiplayer server for the public, take a long look at your logs and determine what percentage of it is actually wholesome interactions. Maybe 5%? We're putting up with 95% garbage for that 5%?
+Some people still use MMOs to find romance. Some use it to talk about furries. Go check out Second Life if you don't believe me. My opinion on all that is that those games are only pigeonholing themselves into categories and niches of the Internet that are only fun for those types of people. If you want the perfect MMO, you'll want to cater to everyone, and MMO commentators seem to think that going back to more MUD and chat rooms and less a shared gaming experience is somehow a good thing. It isn't.
+We should go further, we should ban discussions in a global chat about anything and everything not related to the game, basically a global chat should just be a global help channel and everything else can be region-locked or zone-locked. In a sense, I'm actually kind of making the argument that the best MMO is a roleplaying-only server. I'm willing to accept a global help channel, though.
+I personally think a global chat or temporary access to one could be an unlockable achievement in the game, like a way to speak as a god or demigod or something. It could be something to be unlocked. But no MMO has ever done this before. It'd be cool to see one do this someday, but I'm not recommending it for the perfect MMO, necessarily.
+=== Match-making and Dungeon-finders ===
+I'm sorry, but some sort of group dungeon finding functionality is required. I know some MMO commentators over the years have poo-poohed this as taking away from the social aspects, but that is, quite frankly, bull shit. If you don't believe me, [[https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/why-dungeon-finder-hate/379699/131|consider this comment from a Classic WoW player lamenting the loss of it along with other and where the only real answer to the problem of making groups is to install a 3rd party addon]]. If you're going to install a 3rd party addon and everyone is expected to have that addon and use the LFG channels, then it's a needed feature!
+Matching players wanting to do group content in-game simply improves the time to action, and if your game is going to require or expect grouping for any portion of content, it needs to have this feature built-in. If players have a choice between an MMO that doesn't have this and one that does, they will choose the one that does. It was the one change that WoW did that completely changed the game for the better,  IMHO. I think that it is perfectly acceptable to "lock" the feature down to only players that have trekked to the dungeon to begin with, but once a player has already shown they can get to the dungeon, cutting down the travel time and "LFG business" is only beneficial.
+The only exception to this that I can think of is if you don't want players using a dungeon finder to get an extra free "warp" by joining a dungeon finder and then leaving the group once they get there or something, but even that is kind of a weak point. If that kind of abuse is happening in your game, you've probably got other travel-related issues in your game.
+I compare this back to global chat. Most people don't want to participate in a global chat and don't. We're not all little narcissists playing a game where everyone has to be updated about who we are and where we are at. We're not asking for help for every single puzzle we come across, right? Oh wait, some people are, and they do. I wonder how long those players stick with the games they play. I wonder what percentage bugger off and leave a bad review on the game when they finally annoy someone.
+Finding people for group content when you disagree with the idea of there even being a global chat is why I think dungeon finding is the way to go for forced group content. It gets you straight to the team you are going to be working with, and it forces you to communicate early and well without all the non-functional conversation.
+I get that for some people social interaction is why they play MMOs, but for at least some portion of the playerbase, they want to choose when and how they participate in that. Group matching mechanics let them do that. Dungeon finding gets them into that mindset. I think Josh Strife Hayes, in his video, was the one that thought match-making was one the worst systems that ruined MMOs, but I think he's completely wrong on this. It was one of the best things to ever happen to MMOs. It is worth noting, that he kind of back-tracked and explained the [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiumRjW-Bq0|venture of the solo player in another video]].