Differences

This shows you the differences between two versions of the page.

--- mmos_dead [2025/08/11 22:16] – [Are MMORPGs Dead? Creating the perfect MMO] unhandled
+++ mmos_dead [2025/08/15 17:23] (current) – [Are MMORPGs Dead? Creating the perfect MMO] unhandled
@@ Line 20: / Line 20: @@
 I think the one thing no MMO has ever tried that should be done is a way to intermix all the core elements of an MMO into one large, complex but unique, system.
+=== Progression matters ===
+Everything in an MMO needs to be progression towards some end goal. Even if it is grindy. Even if it leads into something you don't necessarily care about progressing in, if it eventually leads to something that you DO care about progressing in, then it's a worthwhile endeavor and players will participate in it.
 === What are all the core elements of an MMO? ===
@@ Line 30: / Line 33: @@
   - Small group PvP
   - Group PvP
+  - End-game crafting or imbuing
 Almost every MMO has most, if not all of these core elements. Very few games focus on all of these elements and instead have strengths in certain ones, while neglecting the others. Many of them have currencies for participating in specific elements, and then provide gear or items for progression down that same path. I think this is where current MMOs go "wrong", however.
+I do think that crafting can be interspersed into each of these aspects as well, for example. Perhaps crafted items in game can require one thing obtained from Gathering, one thing obtained from PvE, and one thing obtained from PvP. But there should probably be more to it than just that as well.
 === How to fix the core MMO content ===
@@ Line 44: / Line 50: @@
   - Group PvE or raiding which helps get shards/trinkets needed for...
   - PvP which leads to PvP experience levels needed for...
-  - Group PvP which leads to a new zone for...
+  - Small group PvP which leads to a new zone for...
+  - Large group PvP which opens up access to a new zone for...
   - Gathering the best materials in the game for...
-  - Crafting the best gear in the game.
+  - Imbuing the best gear in the game.
 The best MMO would require a robust auction system for trading the "currency" or shards/trinkets or materials from the very start. Nothing should be absent from the auctionhouse and anyone should be able to trade for any other items in the game, meaning crafters can focus on crafting, gatherers can focus on gathering, and if someone likes the PvE or PvP, they can focus on that as well if they are good enough at it.
@@ Line 74: / Line 81: @@
 I personally think a global chat or temporary access to one could be an unlockable achievement in the game, like a way to speak as a god or demigod or something. It could be something to be unlocked. But no MMO has ever done this before. It'd be cool to see one do this someday, but I'm not recommending it for the perfect MMO, necessarily.
-=== Match-making ===
+=== Match-making and Dungeon-finders ===
-I'm sorry, but match-making is required. I know some MMO commentators over the years have poo-poohed this as taking away from the social aspects, but that is, quite frankly, bull shit. Match-making simply improves the time to action, and if your game is going to require or expect grouping for any portion of content, it needs to have this feature built-in. If players have a choice between an MMO that doesn't have match-making and one that does, they will choose the one that does. It was the one change that WoW did that completely changed the game for the better,  IMHO.
+I'm sorry, but some sort of group dungeon finding functionality is required. I know some MMO commentators over the years have poo-poohed this as taking away from the social aspects, but that is, quite frankly, bull shit. If you don't believe me, [[https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/why-dungeon-finder-hate/379699/131|consider this comment from a Classic WoW player lamenting the loss of it along with other and where the only real answer to the problem of making groups is to install a 3rd party addon]]. If you're going to install a 3rd party addon and everyone is expected to have that addon and use the LFG channels, then it's a needed feature!
+Matching players wanting to do group content in-game simply improves the time to action, and if your game is going to require or expect grouping for any portion of content, it needs to have this feature built-in. If players have a choice between an MMO that doesn't have this and one that does, they will choose the one that does. It was the one change that WoW did that completely changed the game for the better,  IMHO. I think that it is perfectly acceptable to "lock" the feature down to only players that have trekked to the dungeon to begin with, but once a player has already shown they can get to the dungeon, cutting down the travel time and "LFG business" is only beneficial.
+The only exception to this that I can think of is if you don't want players using a dungeon finder to get an extra free "warp" by joining a dungeon finder and then leaving the group once they get there or something, but even that is kind of a weak point. If that kind of abuse is happening in your game, you've probably got other travel-related issues in your game.
 I compare this back to global chat. Most people don't want to participate in a global chat and don't. We're not all little narcissists playing a game where everyone has to be updated about who we are and where we are at. We're not asking for help for every single puzzle we come across, right? Oh wait, some people are, and they do. I wonder how long those players stick with the games they play. I wonder what percentage bugger off and leave a bad review on the game when they finally annoy someone.
-Finding people for group content when you disagree with the idea of there even being a global chat is why I think match-making is the way to go for forced group content. It gets you straight to the team you are going to be working with, and it forces you to communicate early and well without all the non-functional conversation.
+Finding people for group content when you disagree with the idea of there even being a global chat is why I think dungeon finding is the way to go for forced group content. It gets you straight to the team you are going to be working with, and it forces you to communicate early and well without all the non-functional conversation.
-I get that for some people social interaction is why they play MMOs, but for at least some portion of the playerbase, they want to choose when and how they participate in that. Match-making lets them do that. Match-making gets them into that mindset. I think Josh Strife Hayes, in his video, was the one that thought match-making was one the worst systems that ruined MMOs, but I think he's completely wrong on this. It was one of the best things to ever happen to MMOs.
+I get that for some people social interaction is why they play MMOs, but for at least some portion of the playerbase, they want to choose when and how they participate in that. Group matching mechanics let them do that. Dungeon finding gets them into that mindset. I think Josh Strife Hayes, in his video, was the one that thought match-making was one the worst systems that ruined MMOs, but I think he's completely wrong on this. It was one of the best things to ever happen to MMOs. It is worth noting, that he kind of back-tracked and explained the [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiumRjW-Bq0|venture of the solo player in another video]].